Beginning of the end? Joe K. is surely turning in his grave

Two shootings inside of a month at Four Season’s Towne Center.  Are those vultures I see Carolina Circling over Joe one of Greensboro’s most prominent development?

Here it is Christmas Eve and I’ll wager that the place will be a ghost town today, relatively speaking.  The death throes of our other now-demolished mall comes to mind.  Like what happpened to Carolina Circle, it appears the inmates are taking over the asylum.

Koury Corp’s General Growth Properties (thanks Sandy, see comments) response to this will be one of the most interesting stories in the news over the next few days.  I see metal detectors in their future – which will cause me to avoid the place even more than I already do – if that is possible.

This entry was posted in Life in General. Bookmark the permalink. Both comments and trackbacks are currently closed.


  1. Posted December 24, 2006 at 11:55 am | Permalink


    Koury Corp. no longer owns Four Seasons Mall — they sold it to General Growth Properties.

  2. tom festerman
    Posted December 24, 2006 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    i see no connection in the two shootings ,could happen anywhere.

  3. Posted December 24, 2006 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    The connection is, of course, their location. You are right, it could have happened anywhere, but they happened at the mall.

    There has been much talk about how precarious center city’s revival is and that there needs to be better security there. The feeling is that one violent incident could slow the whole downtown thing down or kill it altogether.

    I think Four Season’s is not immune to such influences as what others fear might happen downtown.

  4. Posted December 24, 2006 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    When I read of the shooting this a.m., I thought the same thing: no wonder I never shop over there. Heck, I’d rather drive to Durham to go to SouthPointe, or to W-S to Hanes, for a couple of reasons that, before today, had nothing to do with safety. This is just one more nail, IMO, for that mall. (The primary reasons for shopping elsewhere include: better stores, better merchandising, and better experience.)

  5. Keith
    Posted December 24, 2006 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    and it did, Tom….in Florida today….

    1 Dead in Shooting at Crowded Fla. Mall

  6. Posted December 24, 2006 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    I blame Keith Holiday and the Greensboro City council because of the inept way they’ve managed our police department refusing to hire the requisite number of police officers as everyone knows thay have done. There are shooting every day in my neighborhood. Thankfully the thugs don’t know how to aim or there’s be killings every day.

    By every estimate ever made by every organization from the Federal government right down to the local level they all agree that Greensboro’s police department is understaffed by 25%. Could anyone who reads this blog manage a department that is shorted by 25% of it’s manpower? I seriously doubt it. Manpower shortages lead to decent on the job, inside political struggles (Think the Wray case) overworked personel, and in inability to accomplish the job our officers would so love to do.

    I mean, think about it, who is scared of a mall cop? The only way you can enforce the law is by hiring adequate numbers of trained professional police officers which is something our city leaders are to cowardly to do.

    The reduction in “quality of life crimes” and reduced insurance rates alone would be more than enough to hire the 100 additional officers we need today not to mention the fact that the overall population as well as the thug population is bound to go up. If city officals are sacred of taxpayers who haven’t been victim of a crime then they better get the heck out of Dodge before the angry victims decide to fight back. Frankly I’m tired of the cowards who run our city and county governments.

    Oh, and Merry Christmas.

  7. Posted December 25, 2006 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    My parents and I were talking about the same thing last night at dinner. I can remember when Four Seasons was the one safe place they could drop us off as teenagers to hang out.

    Its really really sad to see it falter like it is. It makes me appreciate our little Cary Towne Center that much more. Nothing fancy, just enough to get the job done.

  8. Dick Schaydel
    Posted December 25, 2006 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    When Koury Corporation sold the mall, they also removed the Company Police that were employed there. As a sidelight, properties in the area (i.e., Sheraton Four Seasons among others) experienced a sharp rise in incidents when the highly visiable Company Police vehicles were no longer to be seen. The new management decided that, not only did they not need them, but they cut the times that they employed off duty GPD officers. The first shooting occurred on a day when they decided that they didn’t need GPD on their property.

  9. Posted December 25, 2006 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone have a comparison of numbers between Four Seasons and Friendly Center over the last few years?

    I wonder how the number of shoppers, the gross, the average per shopper, etc, have stacked up in recent times.

    Despite the horrible design and planning nightmare, I suspect Friendy will surge now that the new Shops are open.

    I never seem to notice problems at Four Seasons when I’m there. However, I can’t recall the last time I was there in the evening, especially during Christmas season.

  10. The CA
    Posted December 25, 2006 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Malls in general are dying. High Point Road has been dying for awhile as the more affluent and thus, the money, moves North. Unfortunately, Four Seasons may in the end be another example of why businesses avoid investment in high crime areas thus further accelerating decline.

    Friendly has come alive again, the Bryan Blvd/New Garden area is about to bust open, but Wendover will follow High Point Rd in a decade or so. Blame who you want to, but the only true blame should be with the criminals. All it takes is a few more of these stories, and Four Seasons will be a ghost town. People with money to spend won’t go there if they fear violence, and investors and tenants won’t stay there. It’s really a shame.

  11. Posted December 25, 2006 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Oddly enough a news crew cannot get three feet in the door of that place before being surrounded by rent-a-cops. I once toured the old gas chamber at Central Prison with less hassle.

  12. Posted December 26, 2006 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    I worked in the mall years ago, and a girl was raped in the back inner hallways one day. It was worth your job and your store’s retail contract if you talked to the media about safety issues. Even when the mall cops were there, mall employees had serious safety concerns.

    Those back hallways are like something from a horror movie, poorly lit and deserted lots of the time. And then on the flip side, I once saw mall cops severely beat and pepper spray a kid for standig in one place too long. An unarmed, fairly well dressed black kid who never did or said one thing that could be contrued as reason to be targeted. He was wating for some friends to come out of a store, security told him to move along, he explained that he was waiting and asked where he could wait that wouldn’t be a problem, and they took him down.

    But I guess if he had shot someone, they would have left him alone.

  13. Mike K.
    Posted December 26, 2006 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    The City’s getting ready to start a Corridor Plan process along High Point Road/W. Lee Street, although the first phase is going from I-40 to downtown. Any thoughts on what you’d like to see in that area? I actually was at t the mall this past Friday evening so my son could finally see Santa Claus. The shootings are definitely bad news but they can happen anywhere and I’m not going to live my life in fear of what might happen if it radically changes what I’m all about.

  14. bahamajack
    Posted January 5, 2007 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Mike K. The level of crime in Greensboro compared with our neighboring SE cities (RDU, Atlanta, DC, Charlotte, Columbia, etc.) is pretty negligible. I was out of town when the 2nd shooting occured but it was a bit disheartening. I agree that High Point Road seems to be in decline but 4 Seasons has too many MTV stores which cater to teeny-boppers and college kids. If they want to regain more adult shoppers they need to upgrade the quality of specialty stores like Friendly Center did. They also need to add more children-friendly areas with perhaps some rides or amusements.