Swim center advocacy and a quandry

Yours truly figures heavily into today’s N&R article on the upcoming $20M Parks & Rec bond referendum.

With semi-intelligent sounding quotes like, “The reasoning is out there, the justification is out there, … It’s going to be a matter of getting it understood and explained correctly.”, I am setting myself up as one of the bond’s lead ‘splainers’ who will lead the charge to finally get Greensboro an indoor swimming center following two previous ballot failures in 2000 and 2006.

I’ll be meeting soon with folks who are forming an advocacy group who’s mission will be to get the issue passed in November.  Although I’m unsure of all of the individuals and groups (The Weaver Foundation’s Skip Moore is definitely, thankfully, involved) who will take responsibility for getting this thing done, I’m dead serious about my final quote in reporter Emily Stephenson’s very well presented article, “…a big portion of this (responsibility) needs to come from the swimming community itself.”  Wishin’ and hopin’ ain’t (sorry, JW) going to get it done.

On a related note:  After checking my P&R correspondence on things that transpired in the week leading up to the City Council’s decision to include a swim center in the $20M bond , I find that the only amounts bandied about for such a facility either $10.2M for a proposal similar to the $9M 2006 bond offering and, alternately, $15M for a more audacious ”regional” facility.  I’m still unclear how the amount arrived at became a down-the-middle $12M in the final minutes before the vote.  I’d have to go to the video to figure what transpired but haven’t the time to do so.

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  1. Posted July 26, 2008 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    there has been a consumer group who is worried about the high amnounts of lead in artificial turf

    click here , http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/national_world&id=6225298

    since you are on the P&R , just wanted to give you a fyi on this issue since part of the bond is for artificial turf.

  2. dhoggard
    Posted July 26, 2008 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Thanks, Keith,

    I’m guessing that we will go with one of the products that doesn’t pose a health hazard.

    I’ll inquire.

  3. mick
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Surprise… Surprise…. Surprise! It’s me.

    There is an informal and unoffical meeting of some folks at an undisclosed location Tuesday at noon. At that time we will formulate our strategery on going forward. I am sure we at GSA will be glad to participate in any and every way including any advocacy groups. We always have.

    And quite frankly, given the fact that GSA has been heavily involved in every attempt at a pool, helped build Smith and Grimsley, once owned LPP for a while (did you know that?), hosts City Meet every year, hosted State Games swimming for 2 years, co-owns some equipment with the city and/or Guilford County Schools, blah blah blah. What would make you think we wouldnt be involved this time? We appreciate our relationship with Gso, P&R and GCS and will always ALWAYS do everything we can to promote new facilities, care of old facilities, community swimming, high school swimming, etc.

    You see many of us were at swim meets the past two weekends. One in Charlotte and then one in Chapel Hill. Some had to get their kids off to Atlanta this AM and one to Minn for Nationals.

    We is comin.

  4. Reece Coble
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    We the people of the City of Greensboro and of Guilford County,N.C. can no longer afford any more tax increases. On Tony Wilkins blog I wrote,and quote”VOTE NO TO ANY AND ALL BONDS” when we the citizens vote for a bond we are voting for a tax increase. It is argued by folks that if we do not have things such as a new pool and etc. it will effect our lifestyle.
    Have you folks not got your tax bill? If taxes,gas,and living expenses keep going up, there will be not life style. We the citizens will have nothing, while the rich,get richer.
    At least VOTING NO to all these bonds, will make our political leaders make a decision #1. approve a tax hike. #2. decline a tax hike. After all this is over, then we the citizens may make a educated decision who to vote for or against in the next election. Bonds give the politicians an out. Its time this was put an end too. We cannot pay back was was and has been borrowed now, know as BONDS, folks wake up and smell the roses….

  5. David Wharton
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Mick wrote that GSA “hosts City Meet every year.”

    Really? I was under the impression that the Community Swim Association organized and ran City Meet:


  6. mick
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 10:48 am | Permalink


    OOPS. Sorry an overzealous overstatement on my part…

    The GSA provides equipment and personel and works to support The CSA City Meet. But you know that. I will also add that much of the above are paid/rented/taken in trade, etc. Is that better? My bad. I didnt intend to mislead. Again Sorry. Not the point though Dr Wharton. My real point being that The GSA has a long standing working relationship with swimming in Greensboro and we have no intention of backing out now.

    I will also add, the relationships have not been one sided as The GSA has indeed benefited greatly from working with CSA, GCS, P&R, etc over these many years.

    Reece Coble, I understand and respect your opinion but who was it that appointed you to speak for the people? I didn’t vote for you. I will however admit the past votes have been clear and I believe we have an uphill climb. I harbor no hard feelings for the naysayers amongst our citizenry. I want the info out there so that folks can make an informed decision. That is all.

    Competitive swimming (other than summer league which btw is also vastly private) could easily be done for within a few years if something isnt done. The existing facilities are aging, crumbling and inadequate for the most part. Imagine no CSA City Meet! Dont think that can happen? … Go ask High Point how it’s going over there. High School swimming is all but a joke at most schools. We as a community have made competitive swimming just about as difficult as possible for our kids. Period. I guess it could be worse, my kids could be divers.

    Make an informed decision.

  7. Reece Coble
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    I am not against swimming, however let the folks who compete and take advantage of these events pay for it. I have always paid for what sports that I have been involved in. Baseball,Basketball,and etc. This was paid for and by taxes known as (school). Not any extra sports, if we did it our parents paid for it. And believe me that they did. My dad even paid $5,000.00 dollars in cash to the people who ran the Greensboro Fair Grounds. Shortly afterwards the City of Greensboro opened the wonderful white elephant know as the War Memorial Coliseum.
    Oh by the way he was promised that our family would have free passes to anything. And I might add nothing was ever given back to him or my family, so do not tell me anything about how if you donate you will be compensated. Now all the politicans call it bonds. Just another way to pop it to us the taxpayers.
    Oh, and by the way this little $5,000.00 donation was not made just a couple years ago it was made in the late 50′s. That’s when money was money. My dad went to his grave and never went to our wonderful place of intertainmet, so do not tell me anything about what is needed. Make the poloticians make a decision, and if it is wrong, vote them out of office.

  8. mick
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    You paid for the fields you played on? Interesting.
    Again, the CVM generates millions of dollars. I dont know what else I can say. If you dont believe it you dont believe it.

  9. Phil F
    Posted July 28, 2008 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    No question that Greensboro needs a new indoor swimming facility — this will yet again rest in voters’ hands come November (presumably). Again, the real issue here is whether or not the city taxpayers are ready to foot the operational costs of such a facility year after year if it comes to fruition — we haven’t done so well with regard to maintaining the existing public pools and operating them at their full capacity.

  10. mick
    Posted July 29, 2008 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Amen Phil! I would like to see the City/County owned pools upgraded, maintained and most importantly utilized. Personally, I think learn to swim and safety programs should be a P&R undertaking going forward.

  11. Reece Coble
    Posted July 29, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Mick, you cannot give it up can you. The way that I was taught how to swim. My dad picked my ass up and throwed me in the river, you sank or swimmed. That did not cost the money that is purposed, it cost nothing. Now I will admit it was not in the winter, so you folks want something covered,heated and etc. for someone to throw you in, to learn to swim. GIVE ME A BREAK. Again I am not against anything we have now. But if this is so great, why in the god’s name does not someone build it, that’s without taxpayers money.
    O’h and another good example is the ice skating rink, remember the city tried it, again at the taxpayers expense, and what happened it went broke.
    Then it was built by investors, and guess what it is striving and making money. Again I rest my case………

  12. Posted July 29, 2008 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Reece, will you please clear something up for me just so I’m sure about this?
    You are opposed to this bond, is that correct?
    LMAO, my friend.

  13. Reece Coble
    Posted July 29, 2008 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    My goodness Tony, what in the world are you doing here in never,never land. As you know I am not opposed to a pool, I am opposed to BOND money paying for it. If same were to be privately built, I would be one of the first to take a splash.
    And would not mind paying to do that. Also it is common knowledge if it is paid for by us the taxpayers, here comes free give-a-ways to certain folks.
    But you know me I just soon to swim in a pond or creek, that’s the old fashioned way.

  14. Ted Oliver
    Posted July 29, 2008 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    May I make a few observations?
    1) We already have many, many privately funded pools. They are located at Greensboro Country Club, Green Valley, Hamilton Lakes, Lake Jeanette etc. Parks & Rec. is charged with providing facilities that all of Greensboro’s citizens can use not just those that can afford to pay membership fees.
    2) The issue is; does Greensboro, a city of 250,000, want any public pools? Lindley will not last much longer. Grimsley and Smith will fail soon also. This bond provides for retaining what we already have.
    3) City Meet has been going on for 50 years. If Lindley Park Pool is no longer available, Greensboro’s 2200 kid swimmers can’t have City Meet.

  15. Reece Coble
    Posted July 30, 2008 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Thank you so very much, I do mean thak you. You have made very good comments, and I do respect you for being so nice and practical. But again, I say we the taxpayer cannot afford this. If it were any other time I would agree, but again not to have BOND money build,maintain & keep it going. It should be done totaly by private development. That will cause folks who use it, to pay something to swim, hold BIG swimming events and etc. But we the people know as taxpayers, as yourself sould realize we have enough to pay back not.
    Remember the Colisvium with the ice rink, WENT BROKE. The hockey team WENT BROKE, and who but us taxpayers are still paying the bonds off in that little thing. Sir that was and still is big money, why do you not call the City of Greensboro and get someone to tell you what is still OWED. Sir we just at this time can not afford anything else…….Make the politicans make a informed decision #1 Vote for this #2. Deny this We elected these folks to run our government. Bonds let them off the hook, if wrong, and it is a white elephant, then vote them out of office, but at least we the taxpayer have not screwed ourselves. Again I am not trying to be a smart ass, but think what we are doing to ourselves. May God Bless.

  16. Reece Coble
    Posted July 30, 2008 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Now Ted lets clear something up now, is there really 2,200 kids that live in Greensboro that use the pool? Or is there 2,200 kids that compete twice a year in Greensboro. Sir if you can tell me how many athletes that actually live in Greensboro and compete please let me and all the folks on the blog know.

    Correct me if I am wrong but I believe that 2,200 kids competed here. BUT LET US KNOW HOW MANY LIVE HERE. Ted this is not swimmers,but athletes……Folks who actually live in Greensboro that compete as ATHLETES.

  17. Ted Oliver
    Posted July 30, 2008 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    There were 2196 swimmers between the ages of 6 and 19 who competed in City Meet this year. They came from 22 clubs. The vast majority of the clubs are in Greensboro. The meet takes place on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Lindley Park pool is the only place that comes close to accomodating that many people. You should go sometime. It is a wonderful community event.
    There are about 700 year-round swimmers on Greensboro clubs. The facilites in Greensboro can’t handle any more than that amount. These kids often get home from practice at 9:30 at night because that is the only time the pools are available. Who knows how many kids would swim if we had adequate facilities.
    If a pool is built that can handle City Meet and other meets during the year, revenue can be generated to offset some of the costs. The city will benefit from visitors and City Meet will be able to continue.

  18. Reece Coble
    Posted July 30, 2008 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Again, Ted just how many would qualify for ATHLETES, not swimmers but again ATHLETES. An athlete is one that is above average,practices daily and excells in his or own sport way above average. And might,just might keep it up until he or she exceeds to a real high level of competition.

  19. mick
    Posted July 31, 2008 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    So we are to build facilities or not based on how good kids are? How do we “produce” more athletes w/o decent facilities. You want more and better “athletes” build more, better and bigger facilities and maintain the ones we have. Swim teams, kids and families are doing all we can to keep going. Little help here? Actually I guess this qualifies as a lot of help :)

    Ted’s 700 number would probably qualify for your semi-ridiculous definition of “athlete”. Though I will point out that several of the “non-athletes” did just fine at City Meet. Competitive swimming in this town is maxed out and severely limited due to the lack of facilities. Logistics are all but impossible for some kids. High school swimming is very difficult due to severely limited pool and practice time availability. I strongly believe that more kids would swim competitively if it was made more practical. As is it is a logistical nightmare.

    An adequate or better facility would be able to host several swim meets per year (as well as other events) that would bring in out of town guests and their money. See, that is a good thing as it would help offset the admitted difficulties associated with owning and operating an aquatic facility. Also, during the high school swim season the pool could host numerous high school practices and competitions.

    Greater good guys…. greater good.

  20. mick
    Posted July 31, 2008 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    One last thought and it really should have been a first though but I was sidetracked.

    This isnt just about competitive swimming. It is about water recreation, safety, learn to swim, diving, water aerobics, water walking, water polo, public swim, high school swimming, CSA swimming, private competitive club swimming, swim meets, masters swimming, maybe even scuba diving lessons, kayak lessons, etc.

    This P&R bond is about offering a public, 12 month aquatic facility to our community. It is about maintaining Grimsley, Smith, Lindley pools, it is about Barber park, it is about new modern ballfields.

  21. Don
    Posted July 31, 2008 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    One important component that is missing from the discourse is this is a public facility operated for the children, adults and seniors of Greensboro. It is more than a facility for competition. It is modeled after publically financed and very successfully operated facilities all over the place, but two come to mind as best examples; the Mecklenburg Aquatic Center in Charlotte (built 1990) and Pullen Park Aquatic Center in Raleigh (built 1992). The programming for the citizens is broad and includes learn to swim, senior exercise classes, high school swimming, community swim association, boating, scuba, diving, life saving classes, as well as year round team participation. A competitive swimmer did not start by being a competitive swimmer, but as a kid experiencing play in the water, then perhaps growing into a lesson, then developing more skills, and this leading to club swimming, boating, diving or just exercise as an adult. It is very much like school. The community should decide as to whether this is a public good or whether it is an elitist pursuit as some people want to paint, nonetheless when this project is completed someone in each family will be touched by the benefit. It may not be the one who supported it, but will more than likely be the family senior recovering from heart problem or arthritis participating in a wellness program, or the grandchild learning to swim, or the son learning red cross and water safety before he takes his canoeing trip and ……. None of this is passive activity. I would like to end on a critic’s argument, “I do not support this because the pool will be full of teenagers”. Let’s really hope so, it certainly is better than watching TV or hanging out at the mall.

    Don G

  22. Reece Coble
    Posted August 4, 2008 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Again folks I am not against recreation (Swimming,or any other sports) what I am against is BOND money paying for them. It has been said that if bonds were passed it would not add but $50.00 a year to your tax bill. Ok, lets break it down with my 2007 taxes which are due this year. My home is valued on the tax books at just under $200,000.00. City & County Taxes were $2,442.90.(Real Property.) $763.11 for personal proprty tax(Motor Vehicles) TOTAL $3,206.01 per year on a couple in their 60′s.
    This is just my wife and myself, and I am living on retirement. My wife is working at this time, this will enable us to do more than just pay taxes or bills.
    We have no children, god help me if we did, I do not know what we would do. But yet some folks want to add to the tax base by more BONDS, known as add on taxes paid by the citizen’s.
    Do the folks who want these BONDS,know what they cost?
    Lets get back to what it will cost in 2009 which is a mere $50.00 per year starting then. Check back and see what we are paying for these little costs per year,after year,after year. If you want me too I will, I have nothing but time. It will scare you to death. If you want this and other bonds, let me give you a little sample, get your home re-financed with a 20 percent interest rate and hang on.
    And while I am here, look at your water bill, it has to be paid once a month now, instead of once every three months. ITS THREE TIMES HIGHER,and evidently our City Council thinks we are so dumb we do not know this. The poor folks who live outside the City are paying a lot more. THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT TIME FOR ANY BONDS.

  23. Don
    Posted August 4, 2008 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    This argument has gone on for some time in Florida. Seniors do not want to pay for the school bonds or host of others to support a growing community, in spite of participating in the benefits. Today’s parents and children are paying for today’s seniors who although did pay some did not pay for the high medicals and social benefits that they are not receiving. This is not a personal attack!

    The tax quote is not correct. There is no doubt that publically financed projects do create a bill, many bond liabilties are being paid off at the same time. Can you please stand up and protest the $20,000 to $30,000 or more bill to every young family having to pay for the Iraq war. Why complain about the $5 in a possible property tax for a Parks and Recreation project?

    Why can we not expect some crumbs. Get a perpective! All due respect intended.

  24. Reece Coble
    Posted August 10, 2008 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    I have waited long enough to reply to your comments, so here it comes. #1. We do not live in Florida. #2. If we did live in Florida some old foggies like myself would build this wonderful swimming poole and make a killing. #3. The state of North Carolina have and will be loosing seniors because of taxes. Which have mostly been caused by bonds. #4. We poor old seniors have had our famlies and have paid for pools,college and etc. #4. Now it is time for folks who work everyday like we did, I mean work EVERYDAY not just a day or two a week to pay,pay,pay just like we did. So Don jump in there and work,work & pay pay.

  25. mick
    Posted August 11, 2008 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Make a killing? I thought your argument was it was a money loser?

    This town hasnt built a competitive indoor pool since the 70′s. And Smith and Grimsley were built with help from GSA I might add. The pool before that was Lindley some 50+ years ago. So save how it is our turn to help build. If you guys had built a few schools or a pool or two we would have a couple of problems licked. It is folks like YOU who have got us behind… NOT AHEAD.

    I guess I should work more than 1-2 days a week. Great idea!
    Your disdain for the current residents of Greensboro is well noted. No need for further evidence or comment. Sir, you invite negativity and I am shocked but glad no one has really gone off on you yet.

  26. Reece Coble
    Posted August 12, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    It’s like this, I am a big boy. If someone wants to as you say “go off on me” bring it on. However I do believe a lot of folks read these blogs, if I did not think so I would not be saying what I feel from the heart, sir I do mean from the HEART. At this time we cannot afford this, it’s simple, now is just not the correct time. I do not wish to attempt to cause problems, just simply do the math……May God Bless………

  27. Reece Coble
    Posted August 12, 2008 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    I know you are about to go off on the spelling of hart. But it actually HURTS me to even think in our times of unrest with banks folding and everything else that’s going on, that our council or anyone would put anything out to be voted on that would cost us a lot of money, I just cannot simply would believe it. And folks would have the nerve to ask someone to vote for something like this or any BOND is something I just cannot and will not understand……..

  28. mick
    Posted August 12, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Now all that I can understand and respect.

    However, it doesnt change the fact that you have accused me (and others) of being a nontaxpaying, spoiled brats with a 1 or 2 day a week work schedules, etc, blah, yada. You think all pool supporters are rich, white folks who want a “freebie” and we should just come up with 10-15 million on our own. That you have done all the work and we are reaping the rewards and still bitchin’. WRONG. I do not discount your contributions to this city/county. But we as a community have not done all we can do as far as parks, pools, etc. We are WAY BEHIND. Perhaps we shall stay there and a few years from now there will be no swim community to worry about, no high school swimming. Just the private swim clubs having there summer swim meets with no City Meet to end the year with. Sounds good to you I am sure.

    I know you can handle yourself or I wouldnt have engaged you in this discussion in the first place. Trust me, much like you, I wasnt trying to change your mind but perhaps influence other readers.

    BTW… I dont correct spelling or grammar on blogs I find it rude and frankly I dont have the expertise anyway.

    We can debate needs vs wants vs priorities all day that is legit. I happen to believe that the future of competitive swimming in this once great “swim town” is indeed dire. Can you imagine the uproar if we had but 2 or 3 football stadiums or gymnasiums or baseball or soccer fields for the entire county?! The facilties needed for comp swimming can be muti-utilized (is that a word) for all kinds of aquatics. Arrgghhh, we’ve been over this a thousand times. See ya at the polls.

    Vote folks.

  29. Reece Coble
    Posted August 12, 2008 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    You poor old sole, you just simply cannot get it can you. Now is not the time for BONDS. There is simply no debate, if you work, have children, pay the bills and etc. we simply cannot afford it. Just get over it.. Admit we cannot afford BONDS, you just keep driving nails in your own swimmin coffin, along with any other bonds. You are one of the best NO to bonds people I have ever seen with your comments. As Mick would say just VOTE folks, Just VOTE.

  30. Posted August 12, 2008 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Unlike Mick – I’m a grammar guy. The phrase is ‘poor old soul’, not ‘sole’… anyway…

    We all get it. You are against the bonds. Any bonds.

    I, like Mick, work. I have plenty of children. I pay my bills. I can afford to pay my part for a swim center.

    If you can’t afford it, or perhaps just don’t want things to move forward, then vote against the bonds and ask both of your friends to do the same.

    We get it, we really do. You are against the swim center. Your record is skipping, man… move the needle to another song.

  31. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    I really appreciate the fact you know I do not like bonds. And yes all both of my friend are going to vote against them,so are their friends, and so on.
    As you say I will move the needle to another song. And when this thing is voted down I will sing,sing,sing. See ya in November…

  32. mick
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:45 am | Permalink


    I have a question. You keep saying “now is not the time for bonds”. Many will agree and I consider that a legitimate concern. However, think carefully, have you ever voted for any local bonds? Honest answer please.

    The P& R bonds and others may well be voted down. That is how our govt works. Cool isnt it. We all have a say. I kinda like it that way.

    Again, dear readers, our pools are inadequate in number and size and many are in need of serious repairs and upgrades. We can use these faciities to service the numerous needs and wants of various sections of our communities. Not just competitive swimmers! Do some easy research. Check out how much Pullen Aquatic Center, The Mecklenberg County Aquatic Center, Hillsborough Sportsplex, Triangle Aquatic Center or The Huntersville Family Fitness and Aquatics have to offer their respective communities. This is a worthwhile project folks. Yes it will allow private club swimming and high school swimming to survive and maybe even thrive but a quality facility can and will offer MUCH MUCH MORE! Check it out for yourselves folks. This is no pie in the sky sales pitch.

  33. mick
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    PS: The right kind of facility can and will handle numerous activities simutaneously and can attract large swimming events to “HELP” pay for itself through rental, economic impact, etc. Some swim events have hundreds of participants and their families in town for 2-3-4 days. We can do this as a community.

  34. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Forget it, its over and done with, you are beat, before the votes are counted.
    Again sir Bye Bye, will celebrate in November….And sir in November let me hear excuses……

  35. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    I will say this very nicely the last time and if it does not take, I will take the low road

    WE AS THE TAXPAYERS OF THE CITY OF GREENSBORO, AND THE COUNTY OF GUILFORD” cannot affort these BONDS, BONDS, BONDS and any BONDS that may be put on by City Council,Guilford County. We cannot stand any new taxes(my God folks just look at your bills,water bills and etc. its time we stood up and let our politicians know). FOR GOD’S SAKE JUST VOTE NO., TO THE POLITICIAN’S WAY OUT.

  36. mick
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    In case you havent noticed, Im not much for giving up. And I’ll take your non-response as “No I have never voted for any local bonds” answer. Which is not surprising anyone here I am sure. Im glad you vote. It is your right and privilege. But dont give me the “now is not the right time for bonds” crap if you always vote No anyway. You’re just playin to the crowd with that. We’ve all got you tagged just right. You prove it every time you type. Now go yell at some kids to get off your lawn.

    Most bond supporters realize the uphill nature of our fight this time, last time and every time. There will be no excuses from me. Again, I like it this way. At least I offer some legit info on similar facilities as evidence what can be done. And BTW the info, as always, is for others who are truly interested in the multifaceted “return” vs the investment of the P&R bonds. Not just for Mr No up there.

    Anybody watching the Olympics… think those kids trained in a lake or river like ol Mr No wants our kids to do. Facilities make a difference. Give our kids a chance to become competitive swimmers and divers guys. Think before you vote. Thanks.

    Bye Bye to you and yours Mr No. Oh and just for the record… I believe the CVM complex is a great contributor to our community both economically and culturally. And It doesnt really lose money for the City when you take all income streams into account. So, how ya like me now?

  37. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    The more you talk,the more you drive people off from voting, for this thing. As stated again,again,again, TAXES are too much. NOW IS NOT THE TIME. I do not believe BONDS are the time for anything, as I have stated before if you want the total what BONDS have costs us in the past I will do it. I have nothing but time, and I will put them on this blog, with facts. I do not think you want this, because it will scare the pure heck out of folks.
    I told the folks in one collum to get their homes re-financed at a 20 per cent interest rate and hold on. I do not think you do not want to mess with me, because I will show you and and all the folks what it will COST. Again,I will talk to you in November unless you guys push this, and so help me god if you do, I WILL. I know you do not want these figures to come out.

  38. mick
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Go for it. I aint a skeert. But please take into account what bonds have been paid off, the money and jobs generated by the projects, the enjoyment of the folks, the education of the kids, the learning at libraries, the lives saved, the lives improved, the streets, rec centers, parks, pools and neighborhoods maintained, built and improved, the opportunities afforded to our citizenry, etc. You know, the quality of life and economic impact of all said same bond projects. It is not the time I believe you lack for this project Mr No. Nor am I afraid of accurate, complete information. Never have been. Quite the opposite, I want folks to make an informed decision. And I strongly believe when it comes to parks/pools/greenways, etc that it cannot be just about money. Some things have worth and value beyond dollars and cents. That is one area where we appear to differ. That and I dont begrudge nonproperty owning American citizens their voting rights. Im somehow sure there is more too.

    I may be saddened if certain bond projects fail. But it wont be the end of my world. It hasnt been so far. But neither shall I gloat if some pass. But I guess that’s just me and the way I was brought up.

    You can drop the “dont mess with me” and “low road” crap too. This is a forum for discussion. That is why we are here. Right?

  39. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Ok. Mick Watch out the crap is on the way. It will be facts,figures and etc. When all over you can dive into your dry swimming poole. You have opened a can of werms. You will need all the help you can get.

  40. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Ok Mick:
    Here is the first one without any figures that the public knows about. Where is the City”s skating rink, hockey team and etc. that was paid for by BONDS. They are gone for ever,ever. And by the way the Skating Rink was built by a prvate company and making it, on Landmark Drive, and I do mean BIG TIME. This is to just get your attention,more will follow. When it follows it will be with (MONEY)(FIGURES), and sir I will believe that will kill you big push for free money at the tax payers costs known as (BONDS), I told you not to mess with me. Just give me a few more weeks and I will blow you socks off,

  41. mick
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    The skating rink on Landmark Drive was a public/private project with a $750,000 contribution from Greensboro over a 10 year period. Oh, and I believe that was bond money. Could be wrong about it being bond money though. I dont believe the whole hockey team debacle was bonds. Tax payer money… yes. Good example of Govt silliness I will give you that either way.

    I await your in depth analysis of the Greensboro Ice House financial statement. BTW… in the early to mid part of this decade it was running in the red and on it’s third management/ownership group.

    Slow start Mr No.

  42. Reece Coble
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Ok Mick:
    I will look the stats up and have a reply. But I do not need any stats for this folks: LARRY PROCTOR for County Commissioner at Large would be a great choice. This man is no politician, he and his brother Harold own Sedgefield Outdoor and Landscaping, I have known both these men all their lives. LARRY PROCTOR is running for County Commissioner at Large, Larry is one of the most dowm homes person I have ever known. If you want to confirm this go by their place of business on Mackey Road and just ask for Larry, not Mr. Proctor but Larry, you will see what I am talking about. Ask him he will tell you what he thinks, he is a honest person. I do not know what he thinks about BONDS but I am certain he will tell you what in his heart he feels correct. He may not agree with me, but he will tell what he believes. What-ever he says I still do not belive in bonds……..

  43. Posted August 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Reece, You are just silly, or maybe just uninformed and loving the fight, – which you are losing so far. Mick is correct about the Ice Center.

    Ever been on Wendover Ave? – Bonds
    Ever been to the Coliseum? – Bonds
    Ever been to ANY Greensboro park or other city facility? Bonds
    Ever been down E. or W. Market St.? Bonds
    Ever been in the a local library? Bonds
    Ever flushed your toilet? Bonds
    Ever brushed your teeth with GSO water? Bonds
    Ever been on any NC University System campus? Bonds.
    Ever been in a public school? Bonds

    I could go on… but it won’t make any difference. You are just being obstinate anyway… in light of the fact that you won’t answer Mick’s very simple question.

    Ever voter for a bond in your life? If not… stay off of Wendover and out of the libraries…

  44. Don
    Posted August 14, 2008 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Reece is for nothing. He is not for schools, roads, sidewalks, business development, parks, public hospitals, and all. He wants the working families to pay for his medicare, social security, quality of life, and security. He will leave his legacy to the youth. So here we are debating with the most selfish of community people. Let’s move on and let him laugh at our community triumphs or losses. What a way to live and it is sad. There is no way to have a civil debate here. Communities are built with investment, foresight and hope of progress for all.

  45. mick
    Posted August 15, 2008 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    You know what? You two are right. David said it best just above.
    I’m oooooot! For now anyway. Next?!

  46. Reece Coble
    Posted August 18, 2008 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Just a friendly reminder, see ya in November. And just a small reminder to all folks who read this. Vote NO, on BONDS. Make the politicans make a decision, and if it is wrong, vote them out of office. We cannot stand another tax increase, and that’s what you will be doing if you vote yes to any and all BONDS ! ! ! !

  47. mick
    Posted August 19, 2008 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    Another reminder… Reece would prefer we not have a voice in how or when our money is spent by our local politicians. I prefer a say in the decision making process. How bout you?

    Get informed on the bond issues and vote your mind.

    BTW: Olympian Cullen Jones will be coaching with a large Charlotte area swim club. They must really be lucky. I cant think of any other reason. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

  48. Reece Coble
    Posted August 19, 2008 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I am so glad he will be coaching a swimming team in Charlotte, but what does this have to do with how a swim center is paid for in Greensboro,N.C.
    As I have said over,over and over I am not against a aqua center, it’s merely how a lot of folks want to pay for it. It can be built by private money and not tax payers money. Again VOTE NO in November to any bonds, we merely cannot afford any tax increases at this time. And by the way, it’s almost time for a property tax re-evaluation, LET’S NOT FORGET THAT.

  49. mick
    Posted August 19, 2008 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    If a pool could be built with private money it would have happened by now. And oh yeah it would be private. We have plenty of those. Though the idea of having it built with private money is nice. It isnt reality. The VAST majority of large, indoor facilities are publically owned and operated.

    Who do you think owns The Mecklenberg County Aquatic Center?
    Answer: The Mecklenberg County Parks and Rec Dept.

    BTW: It is a very nice facility located in uptown Charlotte which we could easily use as a model for our pool and P&R programming. Feel free to check it out along with any number of other public facilities in North Carolina.

  50. Reece Coble
    Posted August 19, 2008 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    That’s great, it will be real nice to have a aqua center in the middle of down town Greensboro. Again who will it benifit, the folks who could afford to build it. Where is the parking,kids do not drink beer and etc. again lets build this thing if necessary 2 million dollars, but done by private money, and not by the taxpayers. If built by the taxpayers the give-a-ways will take all away. We simply can not AFFORD more TAXES now, and that is it in a nut shell. As Rippley says BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

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